Healing Through Touch with Tori Putman

In this episode of Unwritten, host Stephanie interviews Tori Putman, a massage therapist and entrepreneur who shares her journey of starting Baraboo Therapeutic Massage. Tori discusses her approach to massage therapy, focusing on chronic pain and emotional healing, and emphasizes the importance of breathwork and self-care. The conversation delves into the challenges of entrepreneurship, the significance of community support, and the value of recognizing one's worth in a service-based profession. Tori's passion for helping others shines through as she highlights the broader benefits of massage therapy and the healing power of touch.

Learn More About Tori Here: 

https://barabootm.com/

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https://www.instagram.com/stephshanksphotography

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephshanks/

https://www.youtube.com/@stephshanks

https://www.tiktok.com/@stephshanks?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

https://www.facebook.com/stephshanksphotography

Transcript

0:01

Hey friends, I'm so excited to have you here for another episode of Unwritten, the podcast where we celebrate transformation, resilience, and the courage to rewrite our own stories. Before we dive in, I want to give you a quick shout out to a few things I'm really passionate about right now. First off, of course, my photography business where I help women, especially over 40, feel seen, confident, and beautiful. If you've been waiting for a sign to step in front of the camera, this is it. Let's create something amazing together. Also, I have a Mother's Day weekend retreat coming up. Soulful getaway designed for women who are ready to refill their cups, reconnect with themselves and step into the next chapter with clarity and confidence. So if this speaks to you, I'd love to have you join us. And of course, today's episode is going to be a good one. I'm chatting with Tori Putman, a massage therapist who believes in the power of healing through body work and self care. We talk about how stress, trauma, and everyday life show up in our bodies and how we can release that tension to feel our best. So grab a coffee, get comfy, and let's dive in. Hey, it's Stephanie. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Unwritten. I appreciate you guys so much. And today I have the amazing Tori Putman on the show. Hello. Tori and I have a little bit of business pass, so I'm excited to talk to you a little bit more personally. Tori came to me for headshots. few months ago because she started her own business. And then I started seeing her as my massage therapist. So it's kind of cool. Yeah. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Tell me a little more about your business. What's it called? And start there. OK. So my business is Baraboo therapeutic massage. I opened this past June in 2024 after working at a couple local spas and things, kind of decided it was time for me to branch out on my own and do my own thing. Super smart to name it Baraboo Therapeutic because people are going to type in Baraboo Massage, I'm assuming, and you're going to pop up. Yeah. So kudos to you. Is that why you did it? Yeah, between that and then also, I feel like I have a hard time coming up with just like random creative names. So was like, you know what? It's straightforward. It's there. Like you said, people are going to be Googling Baraboo Massage. So. I felt like that was just a really good fit for me. Yeah, I would say so. And what is your modality? So I think there's a common misconception with massage therapists that we all, and I say we because I used to be a massage therapist, but we all do the same thing. And that's just like photography, right? Oh, everyone always asks me, do you do weddings? Or you must do weddings. Like, no, I don't do weddings. So what is your modality with massage? I lean more into chronic pain specialty so chronic low back pain or even just chronic pain conditions, fibromyalgia, arthritis, things like that. And that all started actually because I was dealing with my own chronic pain and I was like, you know, I really liked the spa environment and doing the more like luxurious, like pamper type services. But I also really enjoy targeting specific pain areas for people and kind of working out an actual Plan plan. Yeah a plan to really help, you know and see the improvements and I think that that's Really cool and I have a really big pull towards that. So yeah with with my career with massage it was always I had I had to make a certain amount of money because I was the breadwinner winner for my family so I always gravitated towards the spa environment because it was almost more guarantee of a paycheck and that sort of thing but I also think I burned out quicker because of it. So were you kind of experiencing burnout at all with working in the spa environments? I'd say yes and no. I would find challenges where people have been having pain for years and years. And then they would come in for one session and hoping that that would be their like kind of fix all. And that's what I really enjoy about having my practice is I work in a little bit of extra time to sit down before and after. and really go over what people do for their career, what are their hobbies, just to try and figure out what their daily activities are so we can actually get to the root of the issue and figure out that plan, a treatment plan to work things out and give them realistic expectations versus just being like, oh, OK, you're here. We'll just do your session. Good luck. See you next time type of a thing. I find that. I don't feel as much burnout because I can really give people the expectations of working with me. So that is nice. And when you talk about different pain areas and... We talk about, I talk about a lot about meditation, manifestation, thoughts, feelings, healing old trauma. How do you go about, or first off, what are your feelings about that, that energy and memories and thoughts actually are kind of trapped in muscles and body? I do actually feel like there is a big correlation. And mean, even when we sit and we think about when we're sad, we cry, when we're feeling frustrated, sometimes we tense our shoulders or we're clenching our jaw, those are physical reactions to emotions. And sometimes, especially if you've been through something traumatic, those types of things when you're constantly tensing or experiencing those things over and over, the body kind of just. gets so used to being tense and then if you're not processing through those emotions and the trauma or grief or whatever it is, everything is going to continue in a cycle. Whereas if you actually get to process through what you're dealing with, your body actually can relax a little bit more and kind of work through things as opposed to holding on to all of that for extended periods of time. Yeah, and I think that that relaxation part of a massage when you can really just get to the point where you can relax and let go. I mean, that's healing within itself. And then on top of that, you have somebody that's experienced in releasing the muscle tension. So it's like a... I think a lot of times people go into massage because they do think it's luxurious or it's, you know, I got a gift from Mother's Day and now I'm going to go get a massage. But when you go into it, realizing that you actually have to, you're going to more benefit if you put in your own work. yeah. And then so that it's a joint effort into massage. You know, I always had people come in and it's like, You know, their shoulders were so tight and it's like, can you relax your shoulders? And they had no idea. Yeah. And why would I relax my shoulders? Aren't you supposed to relax my shoulders? it's such a it's there's so much more to it than just massage. Right. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I do like to kind of start my massages with having my clients take some nice deep belly breaths. So sometimes when people think of deep breathing, they'll just do like a quick like inhale, exhale, just like, but what we're really looking for is that really slow inhale through the nose and kind of holding it for a moment and slow exhale through the mouth. And that helps actually reset the nervous system. And so when the body can fully relax, that's when we find that the muscles are so much more receptive to touch. kind of You know, a lot of us, feel like are in fight or flight all the time. We have stressful lives, stressful careers. And when we can start the process with trying to reset the nervous system, I think that puts us on a good path for the muscles to accept our touch, you know, for a massage and just fully relax and let that tension go. And how often do you recommend people getting massage in order to really feel to benefit, you know, with chiropractic, they're like, Three times a week you should come in and then once a month and like what do you recommend? Honestly, I like to look at it on kind of like a case-by-case basis I'd say for like a standard routine maintenance type of situation every four weeks tends to be pretty good But if somebody has been living with pain and tension for a long time or especially chronic pain Sometimes they need it more often. I have some clients that come every two weeks. I have some clients that come weekly We try not to have that be a long-term goal because we I want to see your progress I want to see you get better and now granted with different pain situations, you know, that's gonna look different for everybody But I want to see your progress I want to help you to the point where you know if you come in with a certain pain Problem that we can get you to a point where we get you to a maintenance plan words You know, you can come in just alleviate regular tension instead of things that have been pent up and stuck for a while So and what are the other benefits to massage that maybe a lot of people don't know about because we talked about Stress we talked about pain. What are some of the other things that massage is good for? Um, I actually have some clients that also come in that have been through like childhood trauma and so they come in and receive regular massage as a way to keep the body in a state of noticing that there is positive touch. Because if you've experienced especially abuse where touch was not a positive thing, it's so important to tell the body, not everybody that approaches me is going to be negative or bad. And it's OK to have a positive therapeutic touch in your life. So that it can definitely help with things like trauma that you've experienced. It can help regulate hormones as well and the hormones and emotions kind of go a little bit hand-in-hand but Yeah, I mean other than that, you know the stress relief muscle tension relief helping with trauma Overall I just feel like it is so impactful. mean It can also help with regulating Blood flow and I mean Lymph, you know if people are dealing with like swelling things like that. There's specific massages So like I do lymphatic drainage and that can help actually, you know regulate some of that swelling and move that through the body to eliminate some of the swelling too, so and How did you get? Into massage so I'm a firm believer that every step leads to another step and We're really just like baby stepping our way through lives our life. So Before massage, what did you, who was Tori before massage therapy? So I became a mom at a really young age. I kind of- were you? You were 18. Pregnant at 18, yeah. So I kind of just worked here and there, jobs around. And then I was like, oh, you know, I really enjoy doing makeup for people and playing with hair. So I went to cosmetology school. I really enjoyed that process. actually did makeup professionally for a little while. And right before I went into school for massage therapy, I was actually in nail tech at a local spa. And my manager approached me and was like, hey, you know, we have a partnership going with a local school. If you're interested, you know, like we'll help pay tuition. And I was like, okay, you know, I'll try it. And then actually after learning, you know, going to school for massage and learning more about all the benefits and I didn't really ever have too much experience with massage prior. I was like, wow, I actually really like this. And it's really nice to be able to hold a safe space for people and just help be a part of their healing journey. feel like I've always been very drawn to like if people are going through a hard time, like I really want to be there for them and try and help them. So I just feel like all the cards just kind of fell into place for me. So, yeah. For me, I was I was teen mom, but 16 when I had my twins. then I graduated early from high school and then went to UU for which is a bare blue university. It's a small community college here and I was going to go into nursing school. OK. And which sounds all well and good, except when you're 18 and now you have twins and ones recently diagnosed with cerebral palsy and There like there was just so many You know, I just talked about stepping stones. There were so many bricks being laid in my journey from or leap from Boo you getting an associate's degree to a nursing degree. Yeah, and Part of my son's journey with cerebral palsy is we had massage therapists at the house a lot My mom was a big believer in alternative therapy and I I am as well And there was a woman that had a business doing craniosacral therapy. So she came over and she's like, you know, I'm moving and I have this great craniosacral base clientele that are going to need help. Yeah. And. She's like, you know, there's something you could do is go to massage therapy school. And I went and then within a week, I was enrolled and starting. Yeah, it was that quick. Yeah, that. process and that change. I did end up getting certified in craniosacral therapy, but never took her business over. massage therapy was great. I mean, it was such a great opportunity for a young mom, because I had a job at a spa before I even graduated. Yeah, so a nine-month program. Yeah, and then I got certified in Reiki one and two and during this time. So I think for a lot of young moms out there that going the route of massage or nail tech or cosmetology, it's such a great opportunity. Yeah. And a lot of times, I mean, the schedule is very convenient with mom life, at least from my experience, like the schools that I went to were very flexible and That's huge when you're a mom, you know that. yeah. Yeah, and just being around other people that are kind of maybe struggling with some of the same things that you get to, I'm just thinking about this now. Yeah, no, absolutely. I do remember when I was actually in school for cosmetology hearing that a lot of people that are in service-based industries like cosmetology or massage therapy have and not everybody, but a lot of people have been through some hard times in their lives. So it is kind of nice because I feel like you get this sense of community and bonding. Even if it's unspoken, I mean, you don't have to talk about it. I just feel like there's community within that situation. So that's very nice. Yeah. What school did you go to? it was like, was, go ahead. I'm trying to remember myself, but I don't know. That's OK. So I went to Panache Academy of Beauty for Cosmetology, and then they actually partnered with a local spa to do their massage therapy program. Yeah. And Panache isn't available anymore, correct? No, the owner ended up having some health conditions and they had to close down. So if somebody was thinking about going to massage therapy school or cosmetology school, where would you? Are you kind of in the know, where would people go? For cosmetology, I feel like I'm a little bit more removed as far as I wouldn't know where to suggest people go to school. I would say for massage therapy, I don't even know what they have in Madison anymore. I know Milwaukee has schools that are still pretty prevalent and rolling, but I guess it just depends too on where you live. Yeah. And So going to school, cosmetology, and then massage therapy, and then now your own business. Like you're pretty driven. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm tired. But what is your main drive? What gets you motivated and like what interests you? Because I think we always have to follow our passions and that's what keeps that forward momentum. So what are your passions? First and foremost helping people that's that's always been a pull for me before I I mean while I was in high school, I really felt a pull to work with Like children that have been through traumatic situations whether that was gonna turn out for me going into like Being a therapist or you know something along those lines That was originally high in my mind for what I wanted to do. And then I tried cosmetology because I liked, I was a cheerleader in high school, so I liked helping the other girls do their hair and stuff like that. And I was like, you know what, I'll try cosmetology, see how that goes. And I did like it. I feel like when I transitioned into massage, I really enjoyed the community a little bit more, just because I feel like a lot of massage therapists are very even know how to say it. Just feel like like it's almost like Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, I feel like massage therapists are all kind of like super like empathetic and like we all like really, really care about people. And I just I felt like such a bigger pull towards that because I was like, you know, when I was in high school, like that's what I really wanted to do. So was like it was fun being in the beauty community. I really enjoyed it. I I thought that was like really cool and the creativity. I'm a creative person, person by nature. But I really wanted to kind of get back to like, I want to help people. I want to help people feel good. I want to be there for them if they're having a hard time, things like that. Yeah. I worked at Sundara for quite a few years, and I know exactly what that feeling is. Yeah. But it takes a special, because I didn't always, I didn't feel that at other places. Yeah. We are like minded souls that want healing, not only for others, but for ourselves. So I think as massage therapists in particular, we are all on a quest for healing and understanding. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, but I think that feeling part is so huge. Why do I feel this way? You know, but I know on the outside it's like, how do you know that muscle's tight? Right. I'm sure. And I know you've done it to me. It's like I get that all the time. Like, how do you how did you know your muscles? It's like it's almost like reading Braille. It's like, well, it feels tight. Yeah. You know, and it it feels so good to help somebody not feel that or. First off, feel it. Like, that's where it's tight. attention to it. Yeah. But then it helps them with an understanding of like, you know, maybe I can I can get massage, but I can, you know, stretch a little more. you know, and what is it in there that doesn't feel hard? Does it feel soft? Does it make me sad? Does it make me happy? And it's like this quest of inner knowledge. Yeah, I think. That is another thing that I really find fascinating and that I enjoy about massage therapy is that it really makes you aware of not only, mean, when I'm hands-on with a client, I'm very aware of, you know, what's going on with their muscle tissues. But then in my own life, I'm like, I've realized like, you know, something's funky in my shoulder. And I'm like, why is it like that? And you have so much more, I feel like body awareness when you've been working on other people and stuff. And I think It's just always fascinating to me. And I think it's really good to be aware of your body. So many people are, you know, stressed out or, you know, just living life very tense. And some people don't realize that until they get a massage and they're like, I didn't even know I was sore there. It's like, yeah, well, I mean, maybe you've been, you know, living with the tense muscles for a while. So it's just become your version of normal. Yeah. Yeah. How do you at the end of the day or even after a massage? And I'm going to preface this by saying sometimes when I was working on people, I could feel, I felt icky. felt, you know, you're touching somebody and there's that energy transmission that happens through touch. That's normal. That's real. Even though you can't see it, it's real. So how do you ground yourself and... Let go so you're not taking that energy with you. I when i'm finishing session, I kind of have Little mantras that i'll kind of you know repeat and I think that it just kind of helps me Feel like you know i've done what I can for this person and like they can have their energy back i'm going to take mine back and you know That's that's what we're going to do for you know, keeping it healing for both of us You know, you got your body work. We had a good energy flow in exchange, but you can take whatever you came with and I'm gonna take whatever I came with and kind of call it at that. And then in between clients, I do a lot of breath work, deep breathing. Oh, okay. Yeah, I find I don't think I know that. Yeah. I guess I don't talk about it a whole lot, but I do find that it keeps me at homeostasis. It keeps me level and yeah. I do feel like that's really important. And actual grounding. During summer, I love being barefoot outside. I probably don't do it as much as I should, but I feel like there's also that energy exchange with the earth too, which sounds hippie-dippie, but I mean, it's there. The magnetic fields are real. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Everything around us is energy. there's that, yeah. And this time of year, I... I struggle because I have this, I'm getting better at just forgiving myself, right? Forgiveness is super huge for pause, but I have this drive to be more, do more, do more. And this time here, it's January and the seeds in the ground, they're going to be beautiful, right? Yeah. And they know not to try to grow right now. If they try to do something right now, they're going to, they're not going to make it. And I try to understand that for myself and the realization that energy, that pull to be quiet, to be calm, to look within right now is natural and nature. we have to we have to honor that about ourselves. Definitely. And I mean, sometimes if I'm having a struggle with working on, you know, just inner work, self work, if I am not able to kind of channel that myself, I mean, there's tons of great you know, resources on YouTube and stuff for, you know, mindfulness and abundance and all the things to really help. It's important to take time for yourself. And as, you know, givers and healers, we don't always do that as much as we should. But it is so vital. Like you said, you know, the seeds got to know when they get a chill and then when it's time to grow. So I'm going to put you on the spot here. But what is what is your self care? How do you get back to yourself? Gosh, well, that is hard. It's hard because I don't do it enough. You have young kids too. Yeah. I definitely make time to read. I'm recently a book nerd. Yeah. How's your book club going? it? It's going really well. It blew up. We have almost 90 members, which is wild. So Tori started a book club randomly one day, right? Yeah. On Facebook? Yeah, I picked up a book over summer and I've never really been a reader and I think it's because I haven't found the right books, but I picked up a book, I finished it I was like, wow, maybe I actually really like reading. I mean, I've been on a roll since then. I found book series and authors that I like. And I'm like, wow, OK, this is cool. And I was like, you know, I talked to my best friend about the books because she's also a reader. But then I was like, we should start a book club and we should just get together with a bunch of women and, you know, just have a crazy unhinged discussion on the books that we love, you know, because I can't talk to my husband about that because he's like, yeah, OK, whatever. But it's cool to find like minded people that are, you know, interested in the same things to have those discussions. But what book are you reading right now? Right now, I'm actually in the middle of Onyx Storm, which is the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaros. And it is by far my favorite book series I've ever read. Fiction. Yes. Romance. What's the it's fantasy with a little romance like a romantic type of situation. I like that. I've never heard of romantic romantic. Romantic. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's based around like a war college and Dragon Riders. it's it's it's it grabs your attention from the get go and being NeuroSpicy. If a book takes too long to get into it, I'm like, well. So it's very fast-paced, easy reading. It just draws you in and it hooks you. Yeah. I found that when I was going through a serious transformation that finding an author that really spoke to me was super imperative to helping me even just get to the next level to know that I like nonfiction. Maya Angelou is my all-time favorite. And Marianne Williamson, she's also one of my favorites because they speak from their own feelings, the things they went through. you can't, books are magic, I guess is what I'm saying. They're so magical. Yeah. I think right now, I thought that I had like a hardcore favorite genre when it came to books. And I was like, romantic is like my favorite thing ever. But. I find myself being more more open to reading other types of books because if it's a topic that interests me, like I'll sit down and read it, you know? Yeah. So that's your that's what you do for you. Yeah, I'd say like primarily finding making the time for me to read is that's my self care because it's something I have to do by myself. My kids can't read the books that I read. They're definitely adult level. So yeah. Yeah. So finding something that nothing no one else can kind of take from you. Yeah. For me anyways, I feel like that's yeah, that's important. Sorry, I might. that's OK. All good. Do you get those spam calls and they just keep calling and calling and calling the same number? It's like, yeah, that's just like, OK, I'm over it. You try to block the number of the call from a different number. Yeah, it's almost like makes them worse. Yes, it's like. I appreciate the persistency, like also. Yeah. And for a while it was I owe back taxes and I don't. And then now it's your EIDL loan can be forgiven. And it's like, no, it can't. It's always something. Like you guys are lying. Stop bothering me. Yes. And they know it. Anyways. OK, so let's talk about entrepreneurship because again, I went from working at a spa, hold on. I know my mouth is so dry. I went from working at a spa, so everything was kind of taken care of for me. Kind of just plunged myself into photography, mainly because I was struggling really bad. My kids, fast forward now, they're in middle school, the twins. And all of a sudden, OK, Drew can't go on field trips because we can't afford a special needs bus. OK, yeah, OK, we can't. Drew can't go on field trips because we need two people there for him and we only have one. And my ex-husband, my first ex-husband is in prison and my youngest child is going through all these feelings. So I take him to take my son to daycare. and he sits outside and cries, he will not go in. He's like three, four at the time. And the twins, they, my son can't go on field trips. And it's like, what am I supposed to do as a mom right now? Like I am struggling. I cannot go to this job as a massage therapist, be expected to perform at my highest level. And give energy. I mean, your battery is draining because there's a lot going on. That's yeah. There was no energy. Right. And I felt like such a failure because I thought I was letting everybody down. Right. So photography was something that people told me I was good at. And I'm like, OK, I'm just going to try this. Yeah. I'm just going see how it goes. And I built a website and then I got some advertising and I got my first client like right away and I was like, yes, I made it. It's a good feeling. Yeah. Yeah. thought like clients are just going to like rush in and everything was going to be great. Yeah. And it wasn't. It's a struggle. It's such a struggle. Yeah. It takes it takes a minute. I mean, you know, it's it's. Yeah, as much as we wanted to happen overnight, you know. Yeah. But so what are some of your biggest like what what are some things like you didn't think about or what are some of the hardest things you've had to learn about yourself and business since you've started? that's a really good question. Honestly, I would say so I did professional makeup and I learned quite a bit about business during that time frame. But then fast forwarding to opening my massage practice. I would say that a lot of the stuff that I needed to really work on was inner work as far as it's hard to get over the like, like, am I good enough type of feeling? so I had to do a lot of inner work as far as abundance mindset and, you know, like really setting aside that, I mean, you want to provide a good value for your clients always. that should be one of the top priorities. But at the same time, not everything is tied to value as far as like, I felt like pricing my services was a challenge for me because I wanted to make it fair and I wanted to make it worth it. also, there's numbers that you need to hit to have your business thrive and to pay your bills. And so you can thrive. And I feel like that was one of the biggest challenges for me was removing the, is this worth it for, you know, the price? And then I had to sit back and I was like, OK, let's talk numbers first. Sit down and think about, OK, these are the numbers that I need to, you know, pay the bills and do the things for the practice and then for home life. And so I can thrive. And I was like, OK, how do I take these numbers and then weave it in to make it? a good valued service for my clients. And I feel like I have really strived to encompass all of those things together, but I felt like it was hard to get over the, am I good enough? Am I worthy? That mindset, I think, was my biggest hurdle this time. And I kind of went into it this time going, okay, it might take a little bit to build clientele, especially because, mean, Barab was super populated with massage therapists, which is great. I mean, I love that there's a bunch of healers in the community. it's going to take a while to show people, know, this is why I'm different from that person and everybody has their their healers, you know, like the massage therapist for me might not be the same for you or vice versa. Everybody is different in that aspect. So getting around to those mind mind changes, I think was definitely a hurdle. Yeah. And for me now, it's it's easy to type in, OK, these are my bills. And. this is how much it costs for my practice. And this is the realistic amount of clients I can take a week. How much do I have to make per client? Exactly. Yes. And the worthiness, I struggle with a little bit. But I'm better at it. Yeah. But I really struggled at the beginning to just, you know. And so when I started, it was like, I'm going to put a special out there for $50 for a photo shoot. I'm going to give away all the files for free and everybody's going to love me because I'm so cheap. I think that's a mindset that I hope not a lot of people have, but I think they do that if they're cheap enough that the people will come. The right people come and it's like the opposite is true. I was getting people. that were they didn't show up on time or they didn't show up at all. They were angry. I would get mean texts from these people. And it's like I was giving I was giving so much and I I didn't understand why I wasn't getting back. And I think that's been a struggle of my entire life. As I'm saying it out loud is giving, giving, giving without really giving to myself first. So it sounds like you kind of struggled maybe a little bit with that, but that is that self-worth thing is so important. Yeah. And, you know, I think I mentioned earlier, forgiveness, forgive yourself for even thinking that you're not worthy. Right. You know, open that space up so that you really feel that you're worthy of having a business that's thriving, that having clients that are going to pay you what they're going to pay you. you. Value. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I struggled too. was like, when I was just starting the practice, was like, maybe if I did discounts and, you know, I was going to take that route. I really thought about it. And I was like, in the past, when I've done discounted things, I usually attract the clients that are not my ideal clients. They're just the people that want a quick deal. And, know, that's kind of the end of it. And then they don't value you. You know, the ideal client for me really values me, values my time, my knowledge, everything that I've poured into my practice. Yeah, so I resonated with that whole, know, at first not having clients that value you, you know, I've been there and done that. Yeah, that's a struggle. And, you know, thinking that price, if you lower your price, that people will come. And that's not true either. Like you're going to save yourself so much time and effort if you price yourself accordingly to what you need to make to pay your bills. to run your practice, take a week or two vacation, put all of that into the equation. And you can nowadays, you can just type it into AI. And the AI will tell you exactly what you need to charge. It won't make the clients appear, unfortunately. But the clients do come. if the clients don't, if the person says, you know what, that's too expensive, I can't do that. That's fine. There'll be another one. And just trusting that process. Yeah. Trusting the process is definitely huge. And not imploding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because your ideal right people, clients, will find you. Obviously, we have to put in the work to put ourselves out there for them to find us. But they will. Because if you have super cheap prices, you're going to burn out. because you have to do four times the work, you know, and four times the hours. And I feel like that's what leads to burnout, you know? Yeah. So. Where where have you found the most luck? As far as like putting myself out there and advertising. Yeah. What works the best for you right now? Right now, anyways. Or is it just word of mouth? Is it? I mean, I definitely I post in the local groups and I'll let them know, like when my monthly massage special changes and things like that. And that's a different service. It's not a discounted thing. But it's something that I try to either curate as like a new service that I haven't done before or just something I want to highlight because I feel like it's either great for the season that we're in or whatever. But a lot of people find me on Google. Or, mean, posting in the local groups on Facebook and stuff, do feel like those have been my top two ways that people are like, yeah, I saw your stuff on Facebook or I found you on Google. I'm like, all right, cool. Yeah, just kind of roll with it. Word of mouth is always huge, yeah. And I think that having people around you that support you and believe in you is super important. So who are your biggest fans? are your cheerleaders, I should say? Who do you surround yourself with? I mean honestly my family like they're like die-hard day one I'm very fortunate. I mean aunts uncles mom dad grandparents cousins brother sisters like My family is like that. They'll be the first one to like share my stuff comment on things and like tell people like Die hard like you should really go try Tory or yeah, I mean Just very very grateful for them. That's awesome And if you had any advice to anybody that, you know, is thinking about The massage therapy as a career. Yeah, what would you tell them? What are is there any mistakes that you made that you wish you wouldn't have or? Any pieces of advice feel like that's actually really tough because I feel like... I don't know. Like somebody that's like looking to go to school for a massage therapy. Yeah. I I might have a different perspective on that versus somebody who like day one was like, I'm definitely going to be a massage therapist because I tried it by chance and fell in love with it. Yeah, same. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, so somebody who's like planning to go to massage because they're like, oh, I really want to do this. I mean, don't I don't know necessarily what advice I would give them. I mean, other than always, always, always. Volunteer like if if a teacher is like who wants to try this or I need a body Be the first person to be like I'll do it. Mm-hmm. I that person do yeah I mean, that's the only way I feel like also to get over your fears because to work on clients in school You know, I feel like everybody's like nervous and yeah, I don't want to I'm like put me in coach I want to get it over with you know, because once you do it you're like, okay I got this but those first like couple times it's it's nerve-racking but when you put yourself forward and you're like, want to do it, put me in. I feel like that changes everything. It takes away the nerves. It makes you more confident. And then nine times out of 10, especially in the learning environment, you are getting that like first like hands on experience. And that is so big. Yeah. I mean, that's like life lesson one on one right there is just get get ready to get uncomfortable. Yeah. yeah. see uncomfortableness. Definitely. Whatever whatever is coming your way. Yeah. I think for me, too. I always kind of thought until I knew, LL Massage Therapy is kind of icky. It's not icky at all. It's a beautiful career. And it opens so many pathways. And you can do it anywhere. You can travel. can do it on a cruise ship. can do it wherever you want. And it's a beautiful way to provide for your family, especially if you're a young mom or... Definitely. and give it back to people. know, nothing feels better than making people feel good. definitely. That's what I'm all about. Yeah. My favorite. I am too. And I miss that so much that I mean, that's why I kind of started the podcast. And I have a retreat coming up to for women. And it's just like, I just want I miss that part, because when women see their pictures, they don't feel good about themselves. And I want to change that because I miss it. And I think it's so imperative for women to look at their photos and see beauty. See the booty like why? Yeah, it's like we can't see it. I you know, that was one thing when I would do makeup for women, whether it was like Mother of the Bride or Bridal Party, and you'd get done with it and I like, oh, don't get me wrong, you did a great job. I just wish that, you know, I could change this or this. And it was never about the makeup. was like, oh, I wish I could, you know, you know, change my nose or change, you know, my like wrinkles or whatever. And it's like, stop. Like just. Open your eyes and see that, you know, and it's hard, especially, I mean, I know, like when I was growing up, I heard a lot even just on TV about, you know, you had to be like so thin to be pretty. And so then I felt like a lot of adults around me, I would hear like jokes about like muffin tops and love handles and things like that. And it ended up I ended up having an eating disorder in high school because I was so fixated on being so thin because that was the only way to be pretty. I think that like when we have that kind of stuff ingrained in our mind, not just about like body shape, but like beauty in general, because our beauty standards are ridiculous. I feel like it just dampers. Like we just it inhibits. It puts like a shield so we can't see our beauty. And that's so unfortunate. It is. Yeah. And you know, I always joke that I can have a 18 year old in the studio and perfect skin, perfect body, and she hates her photos. And I can have a seven year old woman that's battle cancer that has one arm and one half of a year. And she's like, damn, I look good. Damn, I'm still here and I look good. Like, look at me. I'm still here. And it's like. That should be a standard for beauty. I definitely agree. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's also a big reason why I push, you know, my practice is a safe space. And I think as a non plus size woman in my adult life, there have been times where I've been like a little self conscious, like if I was going to go get a massage and as a massage therapist, I should know better. Like it's not a big deal, but I want my safe. I want my space to be a safe space for other people. I want you to feel confident and comfortable when you come to see me. I feel like that's so important. Like, I'm not going to judge you. My space is a judgment-free zone. I wish there was more of that, just altogether in general. Yeah. Honestly, we're talking about two of the most vulnerable things, being naked on a table and being in front of a camera. Yeah. It's cool to see our side of it, though, as the service providers. Yeah. Well, both. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think when people are coming to get their photos done or coming in for a massage, they have their own insecurities. And I think it's good for them to hear us say, we're not judging you. You're beautiful the way you are. Yeah, come as you are, because you're accepted. You're welcome here as you are. Yeah. Amen to that. I totally appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, it's just cool that we're talking about it, I guess, because I didn't realize that the massage therapy that I did has actually helped. You know, I had overcome my body on a table. Yeah. And I just find beauty in so many, so many people. Yeah. And has nothing to do with how they look. Right. Right. Exactly. It has to do with how they interact and... Who they are, they are, how they carry themselves. 100%. Yeah. beautiful. Well, I we should end it on that because that is super positive. How can people find you? So my business is Baraboo Therapeutic Massage. So you can find that on Google. Otherwise, I do have a Facebook page. I have a TikTok, but know, is up in the air. But yeah, Baraboo Therapeutic Massage or baraboo TM dot com. Awesome. All right, well, thank you so much for being here today.