Business, Bravery & Breaking the mold with Laura Hulleman

Bravery, Business & Breaking the Mold with Laura Hulleman

What if your business was designed to love you back? 💡 In this episode, I sit down with Laura Hulleman, creator of the Endotype Formula and host of the Raving Coaches podcast. After spending four transformative months working with Laura, I can tell you—her approach to branding and marketing is unlike anything else.

We dive into:
✨ Why traditional marketing strategies don’t work for everyone
✨ How to trust yourself and build a business that aligns with who you truly are
✨ The connection between business, bravery, and breaking free from expectations

Plus, Laura shares how imposter syndrome is often just bad marketing in disguise and why your business should support you, not the other way around.

🎧 Tune in for a deep, eye-opening conversation on how to create success your way!

✨ Upcoming Opportunities ✨
💛 Ready for a luxury portrait experience that captures your confidence and essence? My Heart & Soul Portrait Sessions are designed to make you feel truly seen.
🏡 Need a space to reconnect and realign? Join me for an intimate weekend retreat where we slow down, reflect, and fill our cups back up.

👉 Like, subscribe, and leave a review if this episode resonates with you! And don’t forget to check out Laura’s Endotype Formula at endotype.com or listen to Raving Coaches wherever you get your podcasts.

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Transcript

1:19

Hey, it's Stephanie. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Unwritten. I am super excited because I have Laura Hulleman on the show. Yeah. Why I'm excited for Laura, a couple reasons. It's because I just got done spending four months with her as my coach. So thank you for that. You're very welcome. was fun. Yeah, it was so fun. And I learned so much about myself and my business. On top of that, so Laura has her own podcast. It's called the Braving Coaches podcast. And she's a marketing strategist inside the expansion lab. So that sounds very scientific. Well, you know, yes. Good. Good job me. That's branding. Because the personality assessment that I created eight years ago that has developed into this way of doing marketing with coaches was called the endotype formula. So formulas science, science, the expansion lab. Because I really do think that. Just like any scientific process, marketing a business is really just about doing certain steps in the right order. It's not doing the same steps for each person right which is frequently what gets misunderstood we you know I I work a lot with coaches and facilitators and They're sold so often marketing programs or business coaches that are like just do it my way but Unless you are designed and have lived the exact same life as that person doing it their way, they got results, but you're not going to get the same results. But with formulas and processes, you can still personalize it, do it your own way, have your own results, but there's still a way to go about it. That makes it less scattered and makes it work easier. And how did you kind of come up with the? the confidence to do this to Because you you do have your own strategy and your own way of doing things How like was it just maybe steps or did you just wake up one morning? You're like wrote it all out. Okay, this is what I'm doing Tell me a little more about your process into this sure role So as I mentioned Eight ten years ago started developing this personality assessment. I did not set up to do that It was kind of an idea that came along and picked me I I say all the time I was crazy and courageous enough to continue to say yes as the idea kind of led the way and so Because I had questions that I didn't have answers to so I just kept doing and the next right researcher would would show up in my path and I would be on Google and Google searching something and I would find the next piece of the puzzle and next piece of the formula. And way back then, I suspected that that simple four question assessment helped predict small business owners personalized brands. But I didn't come from a branding and marketing background. I'm not a designer. I don't have any of those skills. I didn't go to school for any of that. I was a small business owner since I was like 18 years old. So I've done marketing for myself and I've made all kinds of mistakes along the way. But I didn't have that confidence to be able to stand in it. So with that marketing piece of it I sat on that for probably five six years. wow. And I watched. As other coaches went through branding processes with amazing people and came out the same brand that I would have predicted them with after they took my four question assessment. And I was like, OK, I think it does the thing. I think it does. And then I talked with enough marketing professionals thinking that my job was to collaborate with somebody like to make their process easier. Right. Because I'm not a marketer. is what I kept telling myself. And it's one of those things, if you've heard that saying, like, right, if you keep saying over and over again, somebody should do something about that. And eventually you have to look in the mirror and realize that you're the person that has to do the thing. That's what I finally realized, that if I wanted this marketing system to exist, I did because so many of my coach friends were going out of business because of bad branding and bad marketing. If I wanted this marketing thing to exist, Then I had to be the one that started to step up to create it to work with designers to create the process and then found that it is not only just branding but helping simplify the process of brand of marketing for coaches and facilitators is really one of my secret superpowers. Yeah, you know and I think with I can't speak for coaches, but I can speak for photographers and We think that when we start our business that we need to be like everybody else. And that's not what our business wants for us. No. Well, because you can. So frequently in so much of the personal growth, and you go to any kind of a business convention, and you're going to hear it at least once, you're going to hear the term imposter syndrome. Come on. yeah. I think bad marketing is at the root of imposter syndrome. Because when I'm trying to fit my weird, quirky, star-shaped self into some black and white, super tight marketing concept that might make sense on paper, but it doesn't feel like me at all. Yeah. I know I'm being fake. Yeah. And so all of a sudden, all those doubts that are natural doubts are natural in you know, I do this thing, should I do this thing? doubts are natural in business and in life. But all those doubts get enhanced when I know I'm being fake. you taught me so many things during the process that we work together. But there was a couple of key things that stuck out to Trust your intuition which kind of goes right back to what we were just talking about Trust that you have something to offer the world that nobody else does Even if you're in a room full of coaches. Nobody's gonna coach like you yeah Or photograph like you or massage like you whatever you want to do. Yeah, exactly. so that was number one and What you taught me was to trust myself first off, trust my intuition and trust that I have something to offer. And it's not that I didn't know that. I just didn't know how to put the pieces together. So I came to you with all these things I wanted to do. I wanted to be a speaker. I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to do the podcast and I wanted to be a photographer. And when you're you have four things. or five or six, because we're creative people, we want to do everything. We want to have it all. And if you don't have somebody that's going to help navigate that process with their processes, it's very overwhelming. And what you helped me do was take everything I wanted to do, narrow it down to the basis of what it is, and made it very palatable, edible, whatever you want to call it. so that I could do all the things. Yeah, absolutely. mean, that's when you and I got together and we did the big brain dump experience. Like, tell me all the things, all the things, all the things. We just kept writing it down, writing it down. What I was looking for was the thread that ties it together. Right? Yes. Is there a way that these things work? And the question that I have as a as a marketing and brander is, are these separate brands, separate brands that don't touch? Or is there a way for this to be one brand one concept? with different products, different ideas, different things combined. What we found with yours was there was a thread that tied it all together and there was a way that they could work together to promote each other. Yeah, they're like a happy little family now. Absolutely. And it just makes it easier to go about doing all the things when you kind of know, you know, is this You know, it's kind of like Taco Bell and Pizza Hut owned by the same company, but two completely different brands. Or is this just another menu item on, you know, inside of the same brand? Yeah. Yeah. And we found out that they are. Yep. So I suppose sometimes they don't. But yeah. And something we talked about. Well, first off, thank you. Yeah, was so much fun. And I. Talk to other people that have hired coaches before. And I've hired coaches before that I've had bad results with. So I really appreciate that. I felt like you really like. scored a home run for me like you're you got a gold star and so I highly recommend you to anybody that's looking to to market and brand themselves better. Yeah. I just got done kind of updating my website. And it felt really good. It felt good to use the words that you came up with in the what is it called the booklet that you have the brand activation formula. Yeah, the brand activation formula. That's your. Yeah. That's your little secret sauce to you. So I use that. I pull it out every time I want to use my website. I pull it out and use the words and A.I. yeah, make magic. yeah. Have I shown you how you can upload it into A.I.? No. OK. OK. Yeah, you can. You can take the brand activation formula PDF version upload it into AI and then your AI just Knows your brand from that point forward and you're like use the words use the concepts So yeah, it makes it very user-friendly Yeah, need to use that for this podcast because I feel like now like I have the retreat ready the books ready The website looks great. You know, I feel like everything's on track. yeah, so We talked before we started this podcast about our businesses. And when I go on YouTube, because I love watching YouTube videos on business marketing, sales strategy, everything, it's always men. yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of men. There's very few women that are out doing the things. And I think it's because. We're really busy being moms and we're busy caring and loving. And you brought up a really interesting correlation between our businesses and relationships. So kind of talk to me about what you were brainstorming earlier. Yeah. Well, you know, knowing that your brand is so based on compassion and feeling and. One of the things that I've struggled with in the past, and I think a lot of business owners struggle with, is this concept of letting our businesses love us. So from a business, right? Because it's so. especially with the bro marketing that you're talking about in the very popular bro coaches. It's all numbers and spreadsheets and, know, like, here's how you do it. and very kind of basic and cut and dry. Yeah. And that doesn't really plug in well to somebody who's got very compassionately driven, very heart focused, heart driven. But we try and do our best, right. So we set our goals and we're like, here's the goal. And a lot of times we start to treat or to expect our business to treat us like a bad boyfriend. It'll show up for us when we really really need it to maybe it meets its minimums like even think about them the false myth all Smith here That you're not gonna get any profit from your business for five years. Your business isn't gonna be profitable for five years. Yeah, that's craziness. Yeah That's great, but I believed it yeah, and because I believed it my business wasn't profitable for a really really long time until I said no no I want a business that supports me and my life I want a business that fits in with me because you know some of your listeners might not even know me as the endo type girl or as the marketing girl they know me as the gym girl because I did own a gym in the little town that we live in and at that point I was getting up at four o'clock in the morning and training people in the morning and I was going to bed like way late at night because I trained people all evening and I had other coaches who said, I'm just not a morning person like you are. I said, I'm a person. And they were like, I just assumed you get up at four o'clock in the morning. And I was like, that's when that's when my business needs me. Right. It wasn't that I think we're codependent. yeah. But it needs me. The idea of like, calling your business your baby. it's my baby. You know, babies don't really like it's years before our killed our children give to us the same amount of love and support and that we give to them. Right. So we are just taught that our businesses are not there to take care of us, that they are there to be this thing that we got to go do and that consumes all of our time and energy. And I really want people to challenge that idea, because that's not how I run my my life. My business has to fit in with my life. You know, and as you're saying that, you know, the the difference between these bro coaches is that they have a mom. They care of them. They had a wife that took care of them. They don't feel this way about their business. Sure. They expect that their business is going to work for them because that's what their wives and their moms do. And we are. We're just doing what we've been taught. Oh, fascinating. Yeah, fascinating. It's my baby. it's my baby. Yeah, I have to go to work for it. I have to show up. No, I'm not saying you don't have show up for your business. Oh, yeah. But you know, I really think that there are ways like there are books that have been written, most of them by dudes with like the the 12 week work year and the four hour. Yeah, four hour work and and all of these books that are like, you need to figure out how to simplify your business so that because why are we doing it? A lot of the women that I know want to have a business for freedom sake, right? Yeah, so that we can be with our kids and we can go have coffee with friends if we want and for freedom sake. But then we get so we expect our business to treat us like a bad boyfriend that right where we're pouring in all of the all of the effort and we're getting very little back out that we don't have time anymore to go to our kids stuff or our kids are having to like buy time you know like excuse me can I interrupt you I know you're busy but and we just don't design it well so I think we need to change our expectations and really get into the space where we allow our business to love us and that affects our pricing and that affects our marketing and it affects outsourcing and the expectations that we give to our clients and all of the things But this business is here to love me. We are expected to do so many things. And then our business is where does where does our business fit and how much do we give it? But if we just allow it space to kind of. Be what it is, take a break, read a book, go for a walk, you know that that allowing that we are. we need to do more of. inspirations come in. But when we're grinding it out, grind, grind, grind, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, we halt ourselves, we halt the people around us, and we halt our businesses. It's not what we're designed to do. And finding the way that we are designed to operate inside a business like my accounting, my accounting process is never going to look like somebody else's accounting process. I I do details for my clients. I don't love details. doing details for myself is really difficult. I don't want a whole and I even tried at one point hiring an accountant. had an accountant for like a year and a half that you know like if you pay attention to your numbers and I was like show me what I'm supposed to pay attention to. They're like well you have a good grasp of your numbers and I was like well I thought so but then everybody told me that if I paid more attention to them that no no no just simplify and that's right that's what I like to help my clients do whether it's marketing or they're business concepts, how do we strip this down and make it work for you instead of complicating it to do it the right way that we've been told? Just keep it simple so that we have the time and the energy to do all the other fun things that we love. Yes. Now, tell me, would you if someone were to come to you and say, I want to start a business and you started a few now, would you say it don't hurt? Would you say yes? And but I would if I could offer you three pieces of advice, this is what I would do. Yeah. It's it's tell me why. Like what's the tell me why? It's all about why do you want to start the business and what are your expectations around the business? Yeah, because businesses do take a little time to grow sometimes. So if somebody is is used to a six figure income through their employer. What's your expectation for this business and how are going to get there? Sometimes people have a little bit unrealistic expectations. Then I want to know what your marketing plan is. Yeah. Because. There are a couple of things in business that are never done. One is your own personal development. You're always going to run into places where it's like, I thought I dealt with that already in my thinking. The other is marketing. Your marketing is never going to be done. It's always evolving and it's always changing. So what's your marketing plan? And then I think if I was really helping somebody to evaluate whether or not they were ready to start a business. I think the third question I'd ask them is to tell me about. How many brave things have you done in your life thus far? yeah, we talked about that I think on our last call. Tell me about the brave things that you've done. Because owning your own business is going to require such a vast amount of courage to deal with the risk. There's a lot of risk. Yes. In owning your own business. And you need to be courageous and brave. So when you're an introvert, who would rather be in a bath than at the networking meeting. It takes an extraordinary amount of courage to get comfortable at those networking meetings. Shaking hands, talking to people, following up. If you've never asked someone for your paycheck, like, right. Those of us who are employees, we go in, we work the hours at the end of the week, the money goes into our bank account. Imagine if you go in, you go to work, You do the work and at the end of the week you have to go look the boss in the eye every week and go I would like to get paid Based on the value of my performance this week. Would that be okay? Yeah We never had to do that But that's what it feels like when we have to ask for the sale in our own business But we don't do it at the end. We do it at the beginning would like for you to trust me That I am going to provide for you the value that I'm promising. Yeah, would you give me money now? Yeah, you're right takes it. So I think that. Doing brave things. And having a track and I'm not talking about brave things in employment right. Like. We're. We've talked. I've been divorced. I've single parent raised a family you know two boys. Those are brave things and right. And I've put myself in personal growth seminars and coaching programs that expected me to do even more brave things. How many brave things have you done. What why are you why do want this business so bad and Tell me about your marketing plan When I was starting my business I didn't think that bravery was any part of it yeah, I started my business because my son was in a has cerebral palsy he was in a wheelchair and budget cuts meant that if I didn't take him to field trips then He couldn't go. Yeah. Yeah. You just needed that time, Triton. And then I my first husband went to prison and I was single parenting and my kids had all these issues like from what had happened. Yeah. And they needed me. They didn't didn't trust strangers. And it was just I didn't think I had a choice. So I took a I took a leap of faith that People told me I was a good photographer, that I was going to be one. But it was out of desperation. But think about how you just even phrased that. I took a leap of faith. We say that all the time. But leap of faith means did a really brave thing, and I didn't know if it was going to work. Yeah. See, I think that you had gotten, like myself, when I look back at my life, I've done so many brave things. Not intentionally. I accidentally lived a brave life. Yeah, and you know, listeners to the podcast, they're going to know parts of your story, that you were a young mom, and you were like, I'm going to do this thing. Yeah. That's brave. And so some of us accidentally lead really brave lives. Other people put themselves into situations like being a really great student or getting into that one college that they really wanted to get into, and not Like not, I didn't go to the parties in high school and I didn't do this. That's a brave thing that they did at a young age. It can look different for different people sometimes. But I don't even think that those people would say that that was a brave experience. But anywhere there's risk. And we just shut it down and run into the risk. That's great. Yeah. And it's something that we. For ourselves. Because it's uncomfortable. So we we try to push it away. We don't want to be brave. But then what are the best stories? What do we what movies are we drawn to? We're drawn to the brave people. So it's so funny that we try. We try so hard to create this like cushion around us. And then the reality is that we really. We really love other people being brave. We just don't want to do it ourselves because it feels really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not a like risk at all gambler kind of bravery. talk about my kids and especially in raising boys and and my younger son, although he had some developmental delays, he was slow to speak and he was slow to engage in social activities and things like that. He was super physically capable. He was a very strong and big baby so I would take him to the park over the pink park over in West Baraboo and he would climb the little clonk the Haskins Park okay my kids always call that the pink part because the slides are all pink okay They have a climbing wall and he at the age of like three and four years old was climbing the climbing wall with his eight or nine year old brother. And he come up to the top and be like, look at me, mama, look at me. And I would have to look and say, good job. And then turn away quickly because what I wanted to say was, your butt down from there. But he was capable of doing it. I needed to raise my kids so that they could do dangerous things safely. Not a term I coined. I heard it on some social media at some point. That's how we have to be, I think, as business owners in our business. Don't be. thoughtless and in Russian and risk it all right. I'm not talking about like, you know, like go grab the rattlesnake by the neck and you know, let's see what you're made of. Right? Yeah, exactly. Not gambling, not risking everything. But doing dangerous what feels like it could be dangerous things safely. So the dangerous things might be putting together a retreat. And the safety comes when you have some people around you that can help guide and and right help you see things. So having a business coach or a marketing strategist being able to surround yourself with friends who are cheering you on whatever it is and having a plan like for some people right who want to start their own business the safety net is don't give up that day job yet or what are you going to do part time to be able to make your minimums so that you can let your business grow over the next few months and you know and and get to a profitable stage so yeah dangerous things safely in business. Yeah, that's that is what I think bravery is, though, is when we can see the risk there and we're still willing to go do it. And I think to minimize. that risk of bravery is to learn how to trust our intuition as well. And because we have these great ideas, like you said, you sat on your endotype formula, So trusting that intuition is super important as well. I know when I first started photography, I... I would drive past this sign at the fairgrounds and it was a digital sign and it's which which businesses were there and Joe buy it for months and then I'm like, I'm just going to call and see if I can put my name on that sign, put the name on the sign. It was like twenty five bucks a month, something. Right. And I got my first client that way. And it's just like. We just feel like we shouldn't. We shouldn't put ourselves out there and having a business is constantly. questioning that feeling of fear is like, you shouldn't do that. OK, brain, tell me why. Why shouldn't I do that right now? And chances are there's no it's just there's nothing backing it up. Right. And we have to work through that. Absolutely. Because there might be some. there might be some beneficial information there. mean, that's what my endo, so my endotype formula quiz, it really shows me how a person is designed. Their strengths, their weaknesses, kind of what those voices inside their mind sound like and why they're there is for our protection. And so, so we get an inspirational idea. Mm I should put my name on that sign. Yeah. Or for me, it was like when I started my gym, I was like, I should make yard signs that say, want to lose weight? Text me here. And I was like that. And then right then the doubt part comes in. Where are you going to put those? Yeah, that's a dumb idea. Where are you going to put those? And then the smart part of my brain or the part that had a plan was like, I lived right downtown right by the coffee bean here in town. was like you live on a road that has so many people and like right across the street from a bank branch. I don't know. How much am I risking? So I went and I looked and I was and it was like 20 bucks. And I was like, can I mean, I eat pizza. I like that pizza. Yeah. And I put that yard sign out there and I got my one of my very first clients that way. And she was a prolific marketer. She didn't realize it at the time. But she's like, I'm not sure I can afford this. And I was like, if you bring me one new client a month. I will discount your membership by half for personal training. And for the next six months, I didn't have to worry about my own marketing. Yeah, she did all my marketing for me. So for 20 bucks. Yeah. this intuition piece of mind, but the rational or the break side that protection side of us, it pumps the brakes a little bit to get us to think things through. And so paying attention, right and going, well, I could at least call and find out how much it takes to put my name on the sign. And then it's like, 20 bucks. Yeah, well, I could totally do that. So I think both sides balance us out. It's neither are the enemy of us. It's just Knowing when to listen to each part. Yeah You know, I think the biggest process in small business Owning a small business is to not suffocate the fear just like Elizabeth Gilbert says let it take put it in the backseat. Yep Take along for the ride. You get to come along. You get to have an opinion. You just don't get to control the radio station. Yeah. Nothing. Can stop you when you honor the fear, the fears, the feelings. And you trust that you have what it takes on the inside. just change the subject a little bit here. when we first started you had your slogan with One of them I suppose there's probably several but you help coaches Make money. Yep. I help coaches get paid Why coaching? Because they have my heart, So I have been in the coaching industry for over 14 years. I started my gym here in Baraboo 14 years ago. I didn't realize I was coaching at the time though. I had dropped a bunch of weight, became a personal trainer. I was working out of one of the gyms that existed, but they weren't really taking care of me and I wasn't really happy there. And I'm not one to sit around and whine. So I thought, well, what are my options? I could work for another gym that's gonna be just like it. I'm not gonna like that either. I could start my own, but I can't start my own. I don't have any money to start my own. Well. Maybe that's not true. How much money would it take to start my own? Like I have the space because I had space in my home. And so it was an idea that was ready to come into the world. I had the idea on a Thursday and by Monday, four days later, I had all the equipment I needed to start a gym. It was time. started my gym and I was bringing into my gym a lot of the philosophies and the coaching that I had learned before that helped me lose weight. I knew that most weight loss happened in the mind, not necessarily in the mouth or in the squats. And so I and the other thing that I realized is if I kept my clients talking, they did more squats. So so we would chat through their whole training sessions and I would have like a theme of the week or here's what one you know, one client asked me this question and people would talk to me about their lives and about limitation, you know, my partners and supportive or I have to go do this, you know, like I'm going on vacation. And it was a lot of mindset mindset mindset. it was my clients that actually told me and my employees that started to tell me that I was their life coach. And I was like, ha ha, that's funny. I don't do that. They said, well, you do it for me. And so I had to get comfortable because I didn't have a certification. I hadn't been trained for that. No, I'd just been doing it for the last four years inside of my gym already. I realized that I was doing coaching. And I had had a coach that whole time. I loved the coaching industry. I think it stands in the gap between reading a self-help book and seeing a therapist. Like there has to be somebody, something that stands in the gap. And it used to be, you have put a quarter in me now. I could go on forever. It used to be the little sewing circles or the family circles that started to develop where everybody'd sit on the porch and shut corn together. And in those really comfortable settings, you had aunties that you would go to and you would talk about your life and I'm having this problem in my relationship or, you know, I'm having this problem, with money and whatever. And you get great advice from these older elders and these people who were experts in things. But now our life doesn't look like that anymore. We don't, we don't live by those people. We don't have these sewing circles or you know these the unless we pay for a community or a mastermind or a retreat that is facilitated by coaches or healers or helpers. It it serves this need that I think exists in our world now. So coaches have my heart and it's an industry that I really understand having been in it for 14 years. And so many coaches get into coaching because they have a passion and a love for people and they want to help and they have a natural gift and ability but then they really really stink at business and so that's where I can stand for them and help them to understand business basics to understand how to say no to all the marketers that are going to come out of the woodwork to sell you the next course and the next book and the next this and the podcast and the you know, all the things that coaches are very targeted in marketing for and to simplify their business so that it loves them. I think that with Facebook ads and social media and all that stuff that we are targeted on a level that's kind of insane. And if as soon as you put into your little Facebook bio coach or facilitator or whatever, there's certain buzzwords. Your direct your DMS fill up. with spammy gross marketing content. And I asked myself, why do these people even keep doing this? Because I just block them, block them, block them, block them. But they're doing it because somebody's buying it. And those people are wasting their money most of the time. This is why I started my podcast raving coaches I interview coaches on there who have been successful in their business and we talk about what did you do? What what what's your marketing? Where do you meet people? And then I can stand with coaches to be able to get them paid by either doing branding, branding and messaging or the strategy that goes along with it. And we just together stand and build and simplify their business so that it expands to be what they want it to be. And I think why coaches are so valuable. Especially right now, it's because. People like you and me like my mom was the first woman to have a full-time job you know my grandma's didn't they their role was to support the family by taking care of the family putting dinner on the table So those circles they don't exist and even if they did exist would it be relevant You know we we're in uncharted territory, and we are getting spammed and We're getting the guys that are like, why aren't you doing this? And you know, there's so many there's so many things. it's very overwhelming. just taking a second and thinking about how overwhelming it all is. And then it's like a coach can quiet it all down so that you can see the see where you're headed, at least, because it isn't the end. The end is not the prize. The journey is the prize in everything that you learn along the way. Yeah. You got to have fun. You know like that there there's nothing that's gonna make us lose motivation Inside of our business and get super discouraged like taking away the fun if you are having fun Even if things aren't working But you had fun making the thing that didn't work the way that you thought it was going to there's gonna be some kind of learning there There's gonna be some kind of nugget that it's like well that I I did it I did a little challenge that challenge didn't go the way I thought it was but I'm gonna take that and I get to make it into this now. They become stepping stones as long as you're having fun still. And I can't tell you how many times I've learned something, put it away in the back of my brain and only to bring it out five years later and be like, I knew I'd use this someday. Even my podcast, I Like, I was a prolific podcast guest for many, years. Many, years. And I knew I wanted to have a podcast. And I knew it would be super fun for me to have a podcast. And at the same time, I was in the middle of building a whole thing. And I was like, can't do the podcast until it makes sense inside my business. When there is a plan for how it looks, just because of the phase of life and the phase of business that I was in, I had to have a plan for me. And so the whole time I was guesting, I was picking, like, ooh, I like how they reach out to their client ahead of time. And ooh, I like. like how they market this. you know, I was gathering up all this information for this idea that, lived in the back of my brain for five years. But when it was time, it worked really, really well. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I know when people say, why did you start a podcast? It's like, because I wanted to. I was a guest on them and I loved it. And I wanted to see where it could go. And you know, and it's fun. It's fun. Yeah, you have a very different type of podcast where you're just kind of digging into people's stories and seeing what comes out. I knew I wanted one where we were doing the thing, helping the coaches. So very different branded podcast. But yeah, yours is so and I love that you have live guests and a lot of local guests. Because I get to be this little fly on the wall listening to a lot of people that I know. Right. Tell the stories that I didn't even know about. And when you said you were going to you were you you said yes to me being on the podcast. I was like, good. Like, welcome back, Laura. Welcome back to you've been here the whole time. You don't you don't need baraboo. Right. I don't want to say that badly. No, no, no, no. It's when when when you have a brick and mortar business, you have to work with people who either are local or are willing to come from afar to your brick and mortar. And so for my gym, yeah, I worked locally and I advertise locally and people knew me locally. And now I, you know, like I work this year with people from Pennsylvania, people from Canada, people from all over the place. Because I'm no longer. It's all done virtually. I'm no longer brick and mortar. You can go anywhere and do anything. So yeah, so people locally may not have any idea what I've been up to lately, just because it's less about targeting a city and more about targeting a specific type of clientele now. Yeah, which is a whole nother marketing podcast. Yes. So where do you see your business going in the next five years? I don't think I'll live in Baraboo for the rest or even in Wisconsin for the rest of my life. I've never loved cold sim, but because of Divorce agreements and and the boys dad still living locally And me never challenging that that agreement. I've I've stayed in the area But I don't think I have to And I don't think I want to. So I'm not sure where the landing place will be. That's one of the amazing adventures that I get to be, you know, like that's what I'm doing right now is like figuring out what do I want this next phase of my life to look like as far as my life goes. And my business will come along and be able to support that. For my business, I will continue to work with my coaches doing the thing that I'm doing with them. I'm also taking the branding protocols and the sales documents and the sales systems that I have and taking them to creatives. So a lot of times creative people are not as great at systems and systems are what build businesses. So my branding system is a really great add on to website designers graphic designers people who are doing branding photography to be able to not only make more money on the same clientele but to close them into sales even faster. So that's a program that I'm working on developing right now and we're turning it into course and then there's at least two books one specific to coaches And one to the general public that I would like to write that have to do with the endotype formula and understanding themselves better. So there's a whole marketing plan there. It's just. Making right. It's finding that balance of making sure I secure my income. It's kind of almost like working with my coaches and getting coaches paid is becoming my part time job so that I can go do this creative work and this next phase of things that I want to do. So secure the income in the part-time job so that I can go do these other amazing things which will include some certifications for coaches and some new tools for them and just some really fun fun ways to use the endotype formula. That's awesome. Yeah, and the endotype formula Really works. I felt like you really you were reading my soul And I love taking out my little packet and looking through it and But what you created based on my endotype, which is the lover. Yep. Yep. And anybody who's right listening to the podcast is going to go, steps, lover brand. that makes so much sense. Yes. So your endotype is the counselor. OK. Which also makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You know, ready to add advice. Great listener. Good podcast interviewer. Thank you. You're welcome. And and then, yeah. and that brand was the Lover brand. And what we're trying to do with the marketing is just capture the people energy. You know, and not only was was it really eye opening that I felt like you heard me or could see into me, it also made sense with the things that I was doing that didn't align with that. And I didn't understand the friction between. you know, this brand of luxury, of love, of emotion and feeling to when people come in for just a headshot, I wanted to give them all of this. But my marketing had no no, none of that. so not only was I feeling like. I wasn't being understood by my clients, my clients who were just coming in for a headshot. They didn't understand me. Right. You know, so there's two parts to this. It's not just right. They're like, why do we need to talk for so long? Why do you want to know my life story? Yeah, I really just need a headshot man. Right. Yeah. Blue or black? That's the only question here. Yeah. And, know, and so understanding that when people do call and they do just need that. Black or white backdrop. OK. I understand this. And then I understand when somebody calls and like we have a conversation and then I can offer them this package that I know they're going to love. And that's huge for me and for them. Yeah. Absolutely. Because you get to do the fun thing. But not only that you're actually sharing your. Designed superpower, right? It's how you were designed is with this gift of intuition and this gift of being able to see and this gift of really being able to heart connect with people. It's not something everyone is able to do. It's not something that's my gift to be able to do. But when you can do that and use the. Right, the vehicle of photography. to be able to help capture those things that you just naturally see. You're like, I just naturally know who that person is. like, because I can feel them. But we can't even feel ourselves yet. Yeah, and that's where I had to have boundaries up. Yeah. You know, it just the whole thing was just fantastic. So yeah. So yeah, thank you. Is there anything else you'd like to add? No, I mean, thanks for letting me be on the podcast, inviting me over. I am so excited. You were so fun to work with in the branding and so receptive to just like, what's the next step? What's the next step? And it just came together so organically. can't wait to see what this next year and two and three look like for you. Because I think we could sit down two years from now and it could be a very different conversation. Because I think you're about to, right? I think this is going to be your roller coaster moment. Wee! Things are going to be moving fast and different for you. Well, part of all this is that I am doing it for my future self. which isn't part of the endotype formula or the work that we've done. alongside of the transformation that I did through my branding was this realization that I'm not doing it for my... Parents I'm not doing it for my dog I'm doing it for my future self and my past self the little girl that didn't think she could but also the 65 year old that doesn't want to hustle You know the 65 reals is gonna want to be on a beach somewhere, so I got to like a step up for her, too So I do have a retreat coming up, but I do have it in the intro now. So you're going to hear it. How can people find you and follow along with you and maybe set up a call with you if they're interested in working with you? Sure. So anybody in your audience can take their the endo type quiz. It's for question assessment. They find it at endo type dot com. And they'll learn a little bit of something about themselves. They don't have to be business owners. They don't have to work with me If you want to hear more about my philosophy of working with coaches, you can head to rating coaches comm or listening on the rating coaches podcast and On both of those platforms, you're gonna find places where you can connect with me Drop me a line. We'll set something up and we'll talk about you know, like some people really just need either a one little introductory call where it I see what I'm missing in marketing, or like that brain dump session two hours, let's put all your business out on out on paper so you can see it. And it makes more sense for you. That's one of my superpowers to be able to do and others, they might need branding and marketing and strategy. So you do it all however they need to be supported. I'm able to support And if you can't support you, definitely help them find the right person. So you know a lot of people. Correct. Yep. I interview coaches every single week on the podcast, some of which are business coaches or relationship, all kinds of different coaches. Connect with me if you're looking for a coach and I'll find you a great coach to be able to connect with and make sure they're right for you. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks so much for being here. Awesome. Thank you.